Epi 101: Whole person care at Cancer Rehab Group with Kaitlin Pennington and Sarah Blount

Kaitlin

Oh, that's funny.

Vince

Is very interesting.

Daniel

Yeah.

Sarah

Oh, that would be really fair.

Vince

And some guests obviously get through all 10 wings. Some are like, they get to the sixth one, they're like, I'm out. I'm, I'm done. I'm done. That's, it's very entertaining

Kaitlin

if you, you have it. I feel like we had potential to do something similar. If I would've known when I was at Total Wine, I could have prepared a little bit better, like, could have had like a flight,

Daniel

a shot

Vince

list

Daniel

in front of us.

Vince

Well, yeah. As we talked about, and I, I, I think I said this to you and maybe Chris, but I'm glad this somehow that just triggered our memory. Shocking. Um,

Kaitlin

shots, Mike,

Vince

we're doing, we're doing a net, we're doing a series, right? Yes. Then we talked about we're gonna do, we're gonna do a series. So collectively, let's think about what this one, probably, let's do a four part series, one a quarter. So let's, I think this one will be like the intro. Let's, it's more about introducing you guys, what you're doing and, and with the business, with the cancer rehab group, and then we'll, we'll plot out the second, third, and fourth, but this is. The starting point for those and that we'll now have to step it up.

It's okay. So is it a wine tasting slash

Daniel

Oh, there we go. Oh yeah. That how we, I

Kaitlin

think it

Daniel

go through. It

Kaitlin

should be,

Vince

yeah. Just saying, folks, this is Friday afternoon, so just bear with us.

Daniel

Four o'clock. I, I think, um, did we, do we offer produ, producer, Chris, anything to drink? Oh, Chris, do you want some Monkey 47? He,

Vince

he, uh, Chris, do you drink? Do you drink gin?

Daniel

Not really.

Vince

You can use, you can use the fancy, uh, intercom we have and not just,

Daniel

I think it's not connected at the moment.

Vince

Oh.

Kaitlin

Do you drink red wine? 'cause we

Vince

also have

Kaitlin

that.

Vince

I'm good. Okay. Yeah, we have some Do you want some pinot? Same answer. It's still good. All right. Fair enough.

Daniel

Oh my

Vince

God. Well great. We'll get a juice box next time. Yeah. Pour some Tito's in. Um, actually he likes, uh, Tito's. Was it lemon slices or just lemon juice? And then, um, Topo Chico.

Daniel

What's that?

Vince

It's like a, just a seltzer of water.

Daniel

I'm waiting for Chris to put the menu up on the,

Vince

on

Daniel

the, or

Vince

it just yellow around the

Daniel

corner. Topo Chico. Limes. Yeah. Vodka.

Vince

Oh, limes. My bad. Okay.

Daniel

That's pretty solid.

Vince

That's a good one. Yeah. I think you spelled, you misspelled Topo Chico, by the way.

Daniel

That's okay. Auto Crick. Get

Vince

it. The next one it'll be a middle. Middle finger. Jif. Yeah.

Daniel

Wait for it.

Vince

Which is

Daniel

appropriate? Remote. Just the middle finger.

Vince

It'd only be like the third one I've got in the day. It's cool. Oh

Kaitlin

my God,

Vince

that's

Daniel

a low count for you on a, a Friday.

Vince

It's a I know. And I've only sent out. Yeah, I've sent out a couple.

Daniel

It was been a good day.

Vince

Um, did

Kaitlin

you have a good day, Sarah?

Vince

Yeah,

Kaitlin

I've had a great day.

Vince

How was your. Yep. What's wrong?

Daniel

Oh, there you go.

Kaitlin

I'm trying.

Vince

Oh,

Kaitlin

there it's,

Vince

there we go. Nice.

Kaitlin

I'm trying to make the best of a situation.

Vince

Toco, is that a hyphen or is they just

Kaitlin

Oh, yeah.

Vince

Is it all one word or

Daniel

curses?

Kaitlin

That's, is that like a soda? Like a Sprite. Have

Daniel

you ever had

Kaitlin

Sprite?

Daniel

You've never had Topo Chico?

Kaitlin

No, I haven't. It's

Daniel

Oh, okay. I think it's

Vince

Mexican.

Daniel

We'll have to take a note for the next one. Sprite. We'll bring some, uh, we'll bring, we'll make Chris's favorite drink for the next one. I think

Kaitlin

that's a good idea. That's a

Daniel

great idea.

Kaitlin

Each person could pick the, there you

Sarah

go.

Kaitlin

Cocktail.

Vince

Yeah.

Daniel

There we go. There we, I like it. I like it. So that

Sarah

what we,

Kaitlin

no gin.

Daniel

So no gin. That's fine. Got it. That what we brought

Sarah

you guys didn't like

Kaitlin

today. Yeah. We'll have to get it organized. That's okay. Next time.

Daniel

Yeah, that's okay. Well, we'll, we'll share notes after this one to make sure that we're on the same page going forward. That'll be perfect

Kaitlin

deal.

Daniel

Awesome.

Vince

Get beverage preferences.

Daniel

Yep. What is everyone? So we know Chris's favorite is wine. What is this

Vince

podcast about? A

Daniel

it, it's cold open. This is the drunk open.

Kaitlin

Okay. A good transition. I just watched a video on a white, uh, like a Christmas claw margarita.

Daniel

Oh, okay.

Kaitlin

Like a white margarita. So it's tequila, coconut milk, coconut water, lime juice. Something orangey, some kind of orange liqueur. Okay. And that's it. And then you shake it up and it looked delicious. And then he had like the little cranberries and the,

Sarah

you got me at

Daniel

milk.

Sarah

Okay. A

Kaitlin

milk. It's coconut milk. Coconut milk.

Daniel

Okay. No, no. Coconut milk.

Kaitlin

We'll leave the coconut milk.

Daniel

Okay. So a,

Kaitlin

I love a margarita.

Daniel

Margarita.

Kaitlin

A good, not overly sweet.

Daniel

Yeah.

Kaitlin

Margarita.

Daniel

So have you ever done ranch water before?

Kaitlin

Mm. No.

Daniel

Just kind of similar to Margarita. You just don't add in like the sour sauce or whatever. Is your mic on? I don't know if it is. There you go. Is it better now? Yeah, I need to talk closer. Um, so you just, it's like, like something like carbonated water topo chico or something along those lines. Tequila and then just fresh squeezed lime.

Kaitlin

Oh, sounds good. No,

Daniel

sweet and sour. The other.

Kaitlin

Oh, that

Daniel

stuff. Stuff like that.

Kaitlin

Yeah. Like I don't like the real sugary stuff. Yeah. So just like light and refreshing.

Daniel

Yep. Yep,

Kaitlin

that's my jam.

Daniel

Ranch water. Should try that one out.

Vince

Okay. That's yours. While you guys are drinking the tequila based drinks, I'll just consume the chips and salsa. We

Daniel

just won't open it.

Vince

That's fine.

Kaitlin

That sounds amazing. That sounds like a great time.

Vince

So.

Kaitlin

Mm-hmm.

Vince

Okay.

Daniel

There are so many things we can make happen. There's La Hacienda right across right the door.

Vince

Yes, it's true. That's, that's an option. Uh, but I'm a Chewy's fan, which unfortunately there's not that many around Indy, but there's one of Noblesville,

Daniel

there's one in Michigan, off Michigan, right?

Sarah

Yeah. I was gonna,

Vince

yes, correct. Mm-hmm. The salsa is phenomenal. They have a ranch with like blended jalapeno in it. Mm.

Daniel

Pretty solid.

Vince

Yeah.

Daniel

Anyway. Sorry.

Sarah

It does sound good.

Vince

You're up.

Daniel

What's your, uh, what's your go-to?

Sarah

Dirty martini.

Daniel

Okay. Shaken, stir,

Vince

sophisticated

Sarah

dirty martini, shaken blue cheese, olives.

Daniel

Okay. Hard talking.

Vince

Wow. I feel like I'm talking to my dad. That's, my dad's

Daniel

go-to.

Vince

I mean, it's not a negative. I'm, she's an old soul. That's what my dad likes. Like, well, okay. Sweet.

Sarah

She's a classy lady.

Vince

A guy. I don't know what it is about.

Sarah

No,

Vince

I'm not sure what it is about 'em, but, but I'm, I'll drink olive oil, but I don't like olives. I'm like one of those guys who, or one of those people who

Daniel

you drink?

Vince

They ketchup. Olive. I cook. I would, I like olive oil. Like especially on bread or whatever. Oh, sure. And cooking. But I don't like olives. It's like my wife will eat ketchup. She doesn't like tomatoes. I'm like, what the fuck's wrong with you?

Daniel

The texture thing.

Kaitlin

Yeah. And yours

Vince

anyway. Yeah.

Daniel

What's your go-to

Vince

drink?

Daniel

Yeah.

Vince

Gin and tonic or, well, beer or wine, but, or seltzer,

Kaitlin

but not pinot. Um.

Vince

Some.

Kaitlin

Oh, just not our,

Vince

well, I haven't, I haven't. Have

Daniel

you heard of Opus one? There's a, that's

Vince

not

Daniel

whatever. I know nothing

Vince

about

Daniel

wine,

Vince

so not, I just, I don't typically, I mean more, I'm more heavier dry wine, like more of a cab.

Kaitlin

Oh, sure.

Vince

Yeah. Um, you know, bru,

Daniel

I was encouraged to buy an Opus One. Bordeaux. So

Kaitlin

Bordeauxs.

Vince

Yeah.

Daniel

Well,

Vince

so

Daniel

I haven't

Vince

know yet. Okay. Now that we're actually getting back to where this is supposed to go, the An Evening with Heroes, which are our big annual gala, we're going to do a wine Wine wall.

Daniel

A wine

Vince

wall. A wine wall.

Daniel

Yeah.

Vince

Yeah. And so let's say there's, I don't know. Yeah, 25 bottles of wine, minimum value of 50, probably 50 to 150 bucks. And you basically buy almost like a raffle ticket to have a chance to, and whoever, oh, that's, this pool gets the whole, the

Daniel

whole

Vince

wall?

Daniel

Yep.

Vince

The whole wall.

Daniel

The whole wall.

Vince

So if there's 20, was it, I say 25 miles. I we're

Daniel

going 25. Yeah. 25. 25 bottles. $50 minimum bottle.

Vince

Yeah. Let's say it's a hundred bucks a ticket. You buy one ticket. Name goes in the thing, you pull it out, you get all 25 bottles. Oh my God.

Daniel

Yeah.

Sarah

We need to enter.

Vince

Yeah, it'll be fun. Well, you guys have you guys, you guys will be there. You guys will be there.

Daniel

Yeah.

Vince

It's gonna be a good time. Are

Daniel

what was you guys are attending an evening?

Sarah

I said I was gonna buy a table. Yeah. I just realized that

Vince

I, I actually, you know what, I think you did to, for

Sarah

it,

Daniel

if you had, I have the, the stripe machine over here somewhere. I can, uh,

Sarah

I'll get my wallet out

Vince

regardless.

Sarah

Yeah.

Vince

Yeah. It or, uh, Dana was like, well, so I need some recommendations for what wine I should get. I'm like, I'm not

Daniel

a wine

Vince

person. So I immediately emailed him like, yeah, multiple options.

Daniel

Yeah. There were, there was, there was one more zero on that 50 than I was expecting. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It'd be, it would, I don't know how that happened. It'd be very enticing for someone to buy that a hundred dollars ticket at that point though.

Vince

Yes. Well, yeah. Anyway.

Daniel

Yeah. Is this thing going?

Vince

Hey guys. Welcome back to another episode of the Summit's podcast. Thank all you guys for joining us from wherever you get your podcast or for you joining us on the Heroes Foundation YouTube channel. Thank you for tuning in. Uh, sit back, grab yourself your favorite cocktail. This is gonna be a fun one as it goes on. It could get more fun. We'll see what happens. Um, alright, two special guests. Today, not just one, but two. Uh, miss Caitlyn Pennington and Sarah Blo. Sarah Caitlyn, welcome to the Summits podcast.

Kaitlin

Thank, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having us. You

Daniel

welcome. Thanks

Vince

for being

Daniel

here. For having us.

Vince

You guys look so excited to be here. We

Kaitlin

are.

Vince

Come on.

Kaitlin

We just didn't know we'd be on camera.

Vince

Well that's okay. We, we let to hide that from people.

Kaitlin

Yeah. But you're letting us, you know,

Vince

hey, whatever. It takes

Kaitlin

partake so it's fair. Correct.

Vince

Whatever it takes. Yep. We're just having conversation. It's just four people at a table having a conversation.

Daniel

Yeah,

Kaitlin

that's

Daniel

great.

Vince

Camera. Alright, let's kick things off and why don't you guys do a little background intro on yourselves for our listeners and viewers.

Daniel

Sarah, you wanna go first?

Vince

I

Daniel

would love to. There's a quick deflection there. Thank you.

Kaitlin

Um, my name is Sarah Blunt. I am a physical therapist. I have been a PT for 15 years, uh, specializing in oncology care for the last decade. Most of that was spent at Community MD Anderson Cancer Center here in Indianapolis. And then recently. I am transitioned to Cancer Rehab group where I am working with my professional partner in crime, um, to provide oncology rehabilitation in the private practice setting.

Daniel

Where'd you grow up, Sarah?

Kaitlin

Um, mostly here, mostly here in Indy.

Daniel

Mostly here. North side of Indy or

Kaitlin

warehouse? Um, yeah, the Geist area. Okay.

Daniel

Where'd you go to high school?

Kaitlin

So I went to Lawrence Central.

Daniel

LC

Kaitlin

Yeah. Yeah. LC Elsie Bears.

Daniel

Yep.

Kaitlin

My kids are gonna go to ln. So that's a little bit of a

Daniel

Right. Competition.

Kaitlin

Con conflict. Yeah.

Vince

Yeah.

Kaitlin

Uh, working through that. And then I went to Hanover College. Yep. And then. The University of Dayton for PT school.

Daniel

Okay. Okay. So

Vince

a bear and a flyer. What's Hanover? His mask.

Kaitlin

Panther.

Vince

Panther, okay.

Kaitlin

Bear Panther and Flyer.

Vince

Yeah.

Daniel

So do you, I know that there's an employee of mine that is working with you all. Did you know? Jason before he worked with you or anything like that?

Kaitlin

Well, I must have like crossed paths. Um, so we went to high school and college together. That's Which is wild. Yeah. I'm sorry. Well, no, he was my sister's age, who I love, but. Um,

Vince

I say for the bus,

Kaitlin

but I may have said sorry to him when

Daniel

Got it. Okay.

Kaitlin

That's fair.

Daniel

Saying sorry to Jason is a, is a feat. So

Kaitlin

sorry, Chelsea.

Daniel

Yeah.

Kaitlin

Um, but no, I think they, I think they knew each other.

Daniel

Okay.

Kaitlin

Um, but he and I. You know, we just must have crossed paths at some point. Yeah. Um, because Hanover's half the size of lc. Yeah. So

Daniel

yeah,

Kaitlin

very small school and great school, small school.

Daniel

Good follow up guest that we should have on here soon. There's that. Jason. Jason? Well, yeah,

Vince

well, he,

Daniel

we'll have to have censor some things, but

Kaitlin

maybe he could make a guest appearance during one of our

Daniel

series. Oh, that'd

Kaitlin

be fun

Daniel

there.

Vince

Well, you actually, you know what, that's, no, that's a great idea. Yeah. Um, note that mentally I'll write it down. Yep. But, um, we had talked to him about being on here and I think part of his answer, if I remember correctly, was gimme a little bit of time and I think you guys are, what you guys are doing with him will help with this.

Daniel

Yep, yep,

Sarah

yep.

Vince

All right. Um, okay.

Sarah

Yeah. Love that.

Daniel

Awesome, awesome,

Sarah

great idea. Thank you.

Vince

All right. Caitlyn, you're up.

Sarah

I'm Caitlyn. Caitlyn Pennington. Um, I'm a speech pathologist and I've been practicing for the last 12 years. Um, in the last 10 of those 12 years I've been focusing in head and neck cancer. I was at Community MD Anderson for majority of that time as well. Okay. Where I met Sarah.

Daniel

Okay.

Sarah

My professional partner in crime. I resigned in May, um, to start practicing on, on this side and, um, explore what we could do for patients outside of an organization and looking into more non-traditional models of patient care.

Vince

Mm-hmm.

Sarah

Um, and trying to see how we could fill in those gaps.

Vince

Nice. I think I asked you this the other day when we first chatted. Um, where'd you grow up?

Sarah

Munster

Vince

Munster up. That's right.

Sarah

Munster, Indiana.

Vince

Region.

Sarah

Yep, region.

Vince

Um, and then you went where again? For undergrad.

Sarah

Sorry, not sorry, Purdue.

Vince

That's fine. I mean you can keep that

Sarah

connection. I'm not sorry at all.

Vince

Yep.

Sarah

Purdue, you shouldn't

Vince

be sorry. It's fine.

Sarah

I'm a boiler maker graduate school and undergrad.

Vince

Don't have

Daniel

our

Sarah

handicaps.

Daniel

It's

Vince

cool. Um, it was

Sarah

the best education I could have ever had.

Vince

There you go.

Sarah

Wouldn't be here today without it.

Vince

There. You haven't, folks,

Sarah

did you watch their basketball game last night?

Vince

No, I didn't.

Sarah

Oh,

Vince

I'm sorry.

Sarah

It's okay.

Vince

Yeah. Are you going? Won the open and bucket game.

Sarah

No,

Vince

I don't know. This will, this may or may not. This probably it kind of come out after the fact, so, yeah. Well hopefully the Hoosiers will be 12 and oh when this comes out.

Sarah

Mm.

Vince

We'll see, I dunno,

Daniel

it would be shocking if it was otherwise,

Vince

this is the first time I can actually talk crap about IU football because it's been decades since.

Daniel

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Vince

Been able to do that, so. Mm-hmm. Take me one chance.

Daniel

Yeah. I mean, cool. You should take it.

Vince

Alright. Um, good. Back

Daniel

to back. Yep. Got it.

Vince

Let's go. Chris, you can edit that part out if you'd like or

Daniel

not. No, it's fine. It's fine.

Vince

Um,

Daniel

when, uh, so I was gonna ask, so one thing, when you said you resigned in May, uh, when you resigned, did you have a plan or did you just say, I'm gonna just figure this out.

Sarah

Great question.

Daniel

I'm gonna go with You had such a detailed plan, that was why you did

Sarah

I did not.

Daniel

Oh, okay. I

Sarah

did not

Daniel

would've lost that bet.

Kaitlin

That's not true. She had already started a whole business when she resigned.

Sarah

I just didn't think it would be oncology focused.

Daniel

Okay. Okay.

Sarah

Which was silly of me to think that, because that's my passion and that's what I've been doing and love doing for, yeah. The last decade. Um, but I thought, why not recreate a model of care similar to what we had at MD Anderson Cancer Center, um, for community.

Daniel

Mm-hmm.

Sarah

And, you know, offer a comprehensive multidisciplinary model that really addresses the whole person. Mm-hmm.

Daniel

Which

Sarah

is. A great way to receive care really in a lot of other aspects too. It doesn't have to be cancer. So that's how I went about it. And then it wasn't long before I had some patients reaching out and um, somebody that I had worked with for a while reached out and said Help was needed in Las Vegas and would I go travel there to help some people? And I said yes. So, um.

Kaitlin

She got sucked back in.

Sarah

I got sucked back in. But it's great. This is where I'm meant to be and

Kaitlin

yeah.

Sarah

Um, I just needed a minute to recollect my thoughts Yeah. And figure out what chapter two was gonna look like. But that's why, um, restorative health and wellness exists. That was my first endeavor. Endeavor before, um, I even resigned actually. Okay. So I opened the practice. Um, I had just hired some. Physical therapists and speech pathologists.

Daniel

Mm-hmm.

Sarah

And had a wellness aspect with, um, yoga, mental health, the dietician. And our, our medical director is the, um, former chief wellness officer for

Vince

community, or was,

Sarah

and he's our medical director now. Nice. So we were just trying to think of some creative ways to provide care outside the box in a comprehensive way. And then this kind of landed. Itself and here we are.

Kaitlin

Yeah.

Vince

Yeah. As fellow entrepreneurs, did you ever envision yourself doing this?

Sarah

No. Okay. My mom

Vince

has asked me. A lot of people say

Sarah

that. Asked me, no. My mom has asked me since I was probably in high school. She's like, what? Do you wanna be hairdresser? Okay, great. You're gonna own your own hair salon? Nah, no. So then when I said I was gonna be a speech pathologist, great. You're gonna own a private practice? No. So for the last decade she's been asking me when I was gonna do this and she finally stopped, um, asking because she realized I would probably retire in the position I was in.

Daniel

Yeah.

Sarah

And then I came to her one day and said, mom, I think I'm gonna open private practice. And she said, you have to be kidding me.

Daniel

She's like, yes,

Sarah

but I'm here for it.

Daniel

Yeah. Right.

Kaitlin

Yeah. I would say a lot of the people around me. Had been encouraging me to do it for a long time, like my close friends.

Daniel

Mm-hmm.

Kaitlin

Um, but we had a great setup, um, and didn't feel the need to leave until we did.

Daniel

Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Kaitlin

Um, until we kind of got to a point where I think, you know, we had grown as much as we could and, and then we're ready for a new chapter.

Vince

Yeah. I think when I spoke with you guys the other week, um, I. You came in after the fact, but what was the trigger for you? I, or what was, yeah. I guess what was the trigger for you to finally say, okay, you what I'm, I'm ready to, I'm, I'm in.

Kaitlin

I would say, um, I don't know how to describe this, but I have this. I think it's like part of my biological clock where like every five years, like literally every five years, I need to add something different to my skillset. I need to make a change. Mm-hmm. Um. Career rise in, in like whether it's expanding my patient population in some way, picking up a new skill set, doing something. And 2024 would've been that five year mark and there was nowhere for me to go

Vince

Okay.

Kaitlin

Where I was at.

Vince

Sure.

Kaitlin

And that was really hard. It just started feeling like I wasn't in the right place anymore. And, um, I don't know. I have a pretty strong sense of. You know where I need to be and what feels right and what feels wrong, and it all of a sudden it just didn't feel right anymore. And then this opportunity came along to quit my, you know, job and go on this adventure with Caitlin and really like follow our dreams of expanding access to excellent care for people.

And I mean, it got to a point where I'd be crazy. Not to do it. Not to.

Vince

Yeah.

Kaitlin

Yeah. So,

Vince

so why don't you guys do us a favor and, and you talk about what kind of care, um, or talk about providing care. What kind of services do you guys offer? What are, what are your core competencies?

Kaitlin

So, um, from a physical therapy standpoint, I am a certified lymphedema therapist. So that's kind of what brought me into cancer care. Actually, I got my lymphedema certification about five years into my career and. For people who don't know what lymphedema is, it's a certain type of swelling. It's different than just like holding extra water. It's water, but also cellular waste products and it can be a result of, um, a.

You know, deconditioning or people who are getting older, and so their circulation isn't as effective as it used to be, and so they can start to get fluid pooling in their legs. But it's also a very common side effect of cancer care. So when you have lymph nodes that are surgically removed, or if you have radiation, uh, to your lymph nodes, then your lymphatic system becomes less efficient. At moving fluid and you can get fluid back up in certain areas. So for example, a breast cancer patient might get lymphedema in the arm on the affected side, um, or in their breast or chest, um, where their cancer was. And so that's something that was in need where I was working at the time, someone to manage, um, those patients.

And I was ready. It was that five year mark and I was ready for a new challenge and I said, let's. Do this. Um, so I got certified and, and that was my intro to oncology. And then, um. Once I saw how men, how cancer heavy that population was, I took more and more courses in oncology. So then I could not just address the lymphedema aspect of patients, but also like the whole host of side effects that come along with their treatments.

Mm-hmm. So post-surgical side effects, post-radiation, side effects, side effects associated with chemotherapy. Um, I wanted to be able to take care of the patient in any way they needed in terms of. Oncology support and, and recovery. And then again, five years later, I decided to, um, take on pelvic health because working in the cancer center, there was a gynecologic oncology population that I wasn't able to support in all the ways that I wanted to, um, as well as prostate cancer patients.

And. And again, just, you know, the goal of being able to provide whole person, whole body support for patients going through cancer care.

Daniel

Mm-hmm.

Kaitlin

So, um. It took several, several courses, um, to be able to add that to my skillset. And, and so I would say oncology, lymphedema and pelvic health would be the skill sets that I bring.

Daniel

Hmm.

Vince

You know, I found most interesting, um, after our first conversation was looking at the services you guys provide. There's certainly, the market's clearly there for it, but it's not just those that are going through treatments now. Certainly a needed market, but if they had treatment five years ago or 10 years ago Oh, yeah. Or 15 years ago or whatever, and I mean, I can speak to this, like there are things that will start showing up later.

Kaitlin

Absolutely.

Vince

May happen and may not. But things pop up and, and there's, they're already so far removed from that initial treatment that they, they need you guys. Okay. Yes.

Sarah

And I don't think some even realize that they have issues that are coming up because of their treatment. They might think I'm getting a little bit older or I had treatment and well, this is kind of to be expected. Mm-hmm. And they don't know that there's help out there. Yeah. Um, that can specifically address what changes are coming on. Mm-hmm. So part of it I would add to your realm would be education. That you can provide.

Kaitlin

Sure, yeah.

Sarah

Um,

Kaitlin

educating them on what to watch for. Mm-hmm. Long term.

Sarah

Yes.

Kaitlin

In terms of potential long-term side effects and Yeah. Management

Sarah

awareness, advocacy

Kaitlin

awareness, yeah.

Daniel

Over the years, so what has been the split of patients that. Um, sought care with you immediately after their treatment had com or, or, um, finished versus how many people came back years later to have assistance with things? Yeah,

Kaitlin

I mean. It's, it's hard to really quantify that. I would say unfortunately, the vast majority of the time we're still working in a triage based model of care.

Daniel

Mm-hmm.

Kaitlin

Where we are reactive versus proactive in terms of being able to address these things with people. Um, and that's. Because of a variety of different issues in the current healthcare system. But I can't tell you how many people I've had who told me, I wish I would've known you sooner.

Daniel

Yeah.

Kaitlin

I mean, that overwhelmingly has been the case. Why didn't anyone tell me about this? Mm-hmm. Why didn't anyone send me to you? Last year. Yeah. Or years ago. Why, why, why, why, why? Yeah. And I, you know, can just tell them that we're, I mean, I guess relatively kind of a new subspecialty, but not really. But we're, we're very much continuing to push for education and advocacy amongst providers, physicians, apps, on how to best utilize supportive care services. Mm-hmm.

Vince

Mm-hmm.

Kaitlin

For their patients. Yeah,

Vince

a hundred percent.

Kaitlin

So do you wanna talk about your specialties, your, your skillset?

Sarah

I was thinking about that. Great. Be glad to please share. So this brings me back to when, um, I met my husband's family for the first time we've been married. 10 years this year. And um, I sat down and I'm sitting next to his sister, who's an attorney and his other sister who was pretty young still at that time. And then his parents across from me, actually he was next to me and his attorney sister was across from me.

And they're all looking dead in my eyes. And his sister goes. So Caitlyn, like, what are you passionate about? What do you like to do as a speech pathologist? And I said, swallowing.

Daniel

Oh,

Sarah

I love swallowing. Oh

Daniel

God.

Sarah

So my realm is, I'm

Kaitlin

so glad that you

Sarah

shared that and that my

Kaitlin

husband.

Sarah

And so we got in the car and he goes. Did you realize? Really? Just

Daniel

say that

Sarah

and his sister never blinked. I mean, I dunno

Vince

what you mean.

Sarah

Yeah, exactly. Nobody blinked. That's probably how my husband sat there.

Vince

I'm writing that down. I'm really glad that you

Sarah

chose to share that

Vince

right now.

Sarah

Thank you.

Kaitlin

I had to break the ice,

Vince

so that's, I will, I will say inside, that's our, our viewership and ratings just went up. Yeah. Anyway,

Kaitlin

so are you including swallowing in your skillset? No. Or lemme make that clear. No, but I'll help you swallow.

Daniel

Wow. Okay.

Kaitlin

All

Daniel

right.

Sarah

I didn't mean that. So did stop it.

Daniel

The algorithm you get it is going nuts. That's right. It's okay. We're past the first 10 minutes that Chris says we have to be past for my mom

Kaitlin

was wanting

Daniel

for it to not listen, we're about clean it up.

Sarah

Healthcare.

Daniel

Healthcare. Yeah, exactly. Healthcare.

Sarah

So that's how my journey started and I, I really am passionate about swallowing. I mean it from the bottom of my heart.

Vince

God bless her dad.

Sarah

Um,

Kaitlin

still going.

Sarah

Yes, that came up at my wedding, um, by this man in front of, you know, as you

Daniel

should everybody else. Yep. Yep.

Sarah

Um,

Daniel

thank you.

Sarah

Anyway, I have really enjoyed learning various aspects of people that are going through specifically head and neck cancer.

Daniel

Mm-hmm.

Sarah

Um, what. Aspects of of care they need to maximize their quality of life. Yeah. Because when cancer affects any part of the body, it takes a toll. Right? I mean, you hear the word and your mind is, IM immediately affected in most cases.

Daniel

Yeah.

Sarah

Um, and when it comes to head and neck cancer, you're talking about someone's ability to communicate

Daniel

mm-hmm.

Sarah

And eat and drink. Mm-hmm. And talk, right? Mm-hmm. And so it takes. It takes more than just the mindset to get over this diagnosis. And I realized off the bat that what I thought I had really good training in at one of the top speech pathology graduate programs in the nation. Um, I didn't have all of the aspects that it took to manage everything

Vince

mm-hmm.

Sarah

In, in this patient's care. And so I started. Studying what was under my umbrella and what wasn't. Yeah. Um, and that's where Sarah and I really started to collaborate closely because I would ask her, who is she, who she was seeing? And I would ask her to see a patient with me. Mm-hmm. And we would start. I going back and forth on how to divide and conquer this patient's complexities.

Daniel

Yeah.

Sarah

Um, and with head and neck cancer, the research shows that if you have prophylactic pre-treatment intervention, the prognosis long-term is much better to be able to sustain, especially your swallow function.

Daniel

Yep.

Sarah

Ability to eat and drink.

Daniel

Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah

So, um, as I started in my career, I started adding additional, um, courses and trainings and certifications. Um, everything from certain, uh, swallowing protocols like the McNeil Dysphagia Swallowing Program, which is a bootcamp at MD Anderson. Mm-hmm. Um, type program. To manual therapy and then learning more about lymphedema and, and how to educate patients about it, even when they didn't have lymphedema.

Because from the start I realized one thing, patients are overwhelmed with appointments.

Daniel

Mm-hmm.

Sarah

And when I went to our radiation oncologist about starting a program for head and neck cancer patients and asking him to send the patients, he said. Caitlin, I am tired of tracking patients down and telling them to go to speech therapy. Huh? He said I'll send you the patients, but. Uh, that's about it.

Daniel

Yeah. It's on you at that point.

Sarah

I said. Great.

Daniel

Yeah.

Sarah

Send them. So I called every single patient once I realized that the patients weren't coming to their appointments.

Daniel

Mm-hmm.

Sarah

And the reason was they didn't know why. Mm-hmm. They have all these appointments that they have to do. Why in the world would they go to therapy when they're not having any trouble yet?

Daniel

Mm-hmm.

Sarah

Most of the time.

Daniel

Mm-hmm.

Sarah

So I started calling every patient to schedule 'em myself. Um, and I made sure they realized. Right. What the appointment was for. Mm-hmm. What we'd be doing and why it was important that we did it.

Daniel

Yeah.

Sarah

Before treatment and nine times outta 10 they would come.

Daniel

Yeah.

Sarah

If not 10, outta 10.

Daniel

How of those meetings when they, when they did show up, how surprised were they to realize that they had. Either limitations or things that they didn't realize that they had after that first initial consult with you?

Sarah

What percentage?

Daniel

Well, it just is, it often is there? Yeah.

Kaitlin

I would say often,

Daniel

like

Kaitlin

people

Sarah

all the time

Daniel

don't realize how different it is

Kaitlin

after people acclimate. Yeah. I mean they, they, they will compensate and acclimate to these, you know, new levels of function quickly and then when we help show them how good. Things could and should be.

Daniel

Mm-hmm.

Kaitlin

Um, then they understand mm-hmm. You know, kind of the disparities that are existing in their current

Daniel

mm-hmm.

Kaitlin

State and, and see kind of hope then for where we can get them.

Daniel

Got it

Kaitlin

together.

Daniel

Yeah. Yeah.

Kaitlin

But back to the original question of what your specialties are. About how you help people open their mouth after head and neck cancer. Also, she takes care of laryngectomy patients and started a whole laryngectomy support group. Like she literally works in people's holes, in their necks

Daniel

Oh.

Kaitlin

And changes out voice prostheses and, and all kinds of stuff. I mean, it's wild work.

Daniel

Wow. Yeah.

Kaitlin

Um, and helps people swallow again and not need a feeding tube. Yeah. And. Does really, really great, important work.

Daniel

Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah

Yeah. So trismus or difficulties with the jaw.

Daniel

Okay.

Kaitlin

Like some of our head and neck patients after radiation and surgery, like they literally can't open their mouth.

Vince

Oh really?

Kaitlin

Which is wild and dangerous.

Vince

Yeah.

Sarah

Very dangerous.

Kaitlin

Um, if you can't open your mouth at all, like,

Vince

yeah.

Kaitlin

So, um. So, yeah, she specializes in that.

Vince

Yeah.

Kaitlin

Um, so it's really, really important work that she does.

Sarah

The population of patients going to community, um, with head and neck cancer that were going to speech therapy or not. Mm-hmm. Increased by 7000% when I was there, and it's because I made sure that every single patient that was discussed on tumor board mm-hmm. That was seen in radiation oncology and that went through our clinic with our surgeon, was sent for a consultation before any treatment started and they knew what their risks were and they knew anything that they could do to prevent decline.

Daniel

Wow.

Vince

So if you guys are, give or take six months in. And crystal ball's difficult. What else do you think? Where, where do you think this can evolve into

Kaitlin

world domination.

Vince

That's fair.

Sarah

Yeah. Don't actually, it's a

Kaitlin

minor

Vince

goal. Let's set the bar high.

Sarah

I know we've had some big conversations lately.

Kaitlin

Um, national reach, uh, for patient care and support.

Sarah

Like

Kaitlin

we don't want your folks

Vince

on, on the services you're doing now. Yeah. Or do you think there's some logical. Additional ones without getting too far outside your box, so to speak? Um,

Sarah

mental health?

Kaitlin

Well, yes, but like for, for us specifically, I would say, I mean definitely, you know, some physical touch points around the country, but, um, also expanding our virtual reach to patients around the country. Mm-hmm. We just don't want, um, your recovery to depend on where you live. Right,

Vince

right. Yeah.

Kaitlin

We don't want that. We want every cancer patient to have access to the skills and support they need to make a as full of a recovery as possible no matter where you live.

Sarah

And I think a common misconception is that if you have a hospital that has a PT and rehab department, or you have nearby rehab locations, that there's the support you need if you need it. Mm-hmm. Um. And we've both seen from different aspects. Me personally, when I first started this work that I didn't know all that it took even when I thought I had a great background and skillset. Um, this is not a training that everybody just has coming outta school as a speech pathologist or a physical therapist.

Mm-hmm. Cancer rehab is a subspecialty that takes. Further education, dedication, um,

Kaitlin

mentorship,

Sarah

mentorship

Kaitlin

experience,

Sarah

all Yes. And we've experienced it ourselves. We've seen the implications. Mm-hmm. When you don't have that to speak to the value of it. And so our hope is that we can raise awareness to the fact that we need to separate the existence of rehab facilities.

Daniel

Mm-hmm.

Sarah

And cancer rehab, which should be in a must. It should be, yes.

Kaitlin

It should be part of the

Sarah

treatment. Part of the treatment plan. Yeah.

Kaitlin

Yeah.

Sarah

When you are undergoing treatment.

Vince

Yeah.

Sarah

It should be a necessity, not, um, a luxury.

Vince

Mm-hmm. There you go. Agreed. All right. Um, what else do we not know about you guys?

Sarah

Pretty much everything now. I

Vince

mean, I think

Sarah

I regret that.

Vince

Well, alright.

Sarah

I told you

Vince

we have some ideas for future episodes now. Yeah. Um, we'll have to chat with legal and hr, but that's okay. Yeah, that's all good.

Kaitlin

Same. Um, we'll have to get an HR person. No, sorry.

Vince

Let it, let it be. It's better. Um. Maybe not too, I dunno.

Kaitlin

Oh,

Sarah

what do you not know about us? We really value, um, quality care, accessible

Kaitlin

care. They may know that, they may know that part.

Daniel

Mm-hmm.

Sarah

But also work-life balance clearly.

Kaitlin

We support women in the workplace. Yes. Mm-hmm. I think both of us have unfortunately experienced, um, challenges, professional challenges associated with trying to be a working woman mom in the workplace. Mm-hmm. And, um, it's really hard sometimes, um, when you're trying to raise your children, have children, raise children, and also. Be a leader in your field. Um, and so we, we want to support women and work life balance and working moms.

Daniel

Yep.

Sarah

Yeah.

Kaitlin

Um, I think that, you know, we have the potential to put together, I mean, we have an incredible team and multiple members of our team are moms who struggled with, you know, walking that line of you can't miss more than, you know, five or six days a year. Mm-hmm. But also have kids and raise kids and take care of them when they're sick, but also don't ever miss work or get sick yourself. Mm-hmm.

Vince

Right. Yeah.

Daniel

Mm-hmm.

Kaitlin

But also come to work and take care of everyone else at your own expense.

Daniel

Mm-hmm.

Kaitlin

And. You know, it's tough. Yeah. And so I think something that we feel passionate about is, is supporting women in the workplace.

Daniel

Mm-hmm.

Sarah

And I'll add to that, that it was part of me opening restorative health and wellness because I wanted to set a new standard for especially the ancillary service care. Mm-hmm. Um, when you're not a physician or an a PP, you're just a therapist.

Daniel

Mm-hmm.

Sarah

Um. But you have high demands when it comes to direct care.

Daniel

Mm-hmm.

Sarah

Direct patient care. But there can be a balance and you shouldn't be punished for having children or a life outside of work. And so part of me opening restorative health and wellness was truly to show, um, people that there can be a balance. You know, you can, you can have that and achieve that and, um, you can have autonomy too.

Daniel

Mm-hmm.

Sarah

And that's what I really am very passionate about in instilling in my employees, is that you work hard and you see the benefits. Your patients know you, you establish really good rapport with them, and they understand when things happen, things happen. Mm-hmm. You know, and, and. When you hire good people, um, and you have good people on your side that have like-minded values at the end of the day, and you're all in it for the same reasons.

Kaitlin

Yeah.

Sarah

You can, you can achieve that.

Kaitlin

We don't want our employees to worry about losing their job if they get sick. Mm-hmm. Or if their child, child gets sick.

Daniel

Yeah.

Kaitlin

Yeah. I mean, just really simple stuff.

Daniel

Fair enough. Yeah.

Kaitlin

So,

Daniel

yeah.

Vince

Well, kudos to you guys for taking the leap. Mm-hmm. Um, a lot of people are not, they, they have the idea, they have the vision, but they're, they're too afraid to do so. I mean. We see it all the time.

Daniel

Yeah.

Vince

Uh, so kudos to you guys for doing that. We wish you much success. Mm-hmm. Thank you, you so much. Um, you are filling a much needed void.

Daniel

Yep.

Vince

Um, not just from personal experience, but I think, I think the sky's the limit for you guys. And I like the fact that you have a vision you like, we just don't wanna. Come out here and do this on the north side of Indianapolis and whatever happens, happens like you Oh no. You have a vision, which we have

Kaitlin

plans

Vince

is key. I like it. I like it. So we look forward to talking about that in future episodes. Guys, this is gonna be a multi, uh, a multi episode series, multi part series, if you will. Yeah. Should get interesting. I, this first one, start off with a bang, right? Yeah,

Daniel

yeah.

Vince

We'll, we will make sure we do all future tapings of this on Friday afternoons. Yep. And, um,

Daniel

mandatory.

Vince

I don't know whether to say you're welcome or I'm sorry. Oh,

Daniel

I don't know. That'll be for legal to decide later.

Vince

Yeah.

Daniel

All

Vince

right.

Daniel

Great.

Vince

Well, thank you guys for tuning to this episode of the Summits podcast. We appreciate you guys taking the time out of your day to, uh. Take a listen, uh, laugh at us as well. Uh, we appreciate it. And don't forget all this is the name of Beat Cancer.